Jesus, Yogis & Spiritual Leaders
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A Conversation with Shivabalayogi
Swamiji is asked about a variety of subjects, particularly about Jesus, Yogis and Spiritual Leaders. When Shivabalayogi was traveling in the West, he often engaged in conversations where devotees asked questions on a wide variety of subjects. This conversation in Las Vegas on April 16, 1991, was recorded on video and is a good example of what it was like when Shri Swamiji communicated in words. He was humorous, loving, direct and surprisingly uncompromising. It is also typical in that Shri Swamiji often talked with Western devotees about the difference between God realized yogis who know from direct experience, and spiritual leaders who get their knowledge from books. The subjects discussed on this occasion are particularly thought provoking: different meditation techniques, samadhi (enlightenment) and the process of tapas to attain Self realization, the Second Coming of Christ, how yogis work through numerous astral bodies, Jesus' tapas and his crucifixion, the pope as a spiritual leader, Native American yogis, religions' claims to be the only way, avatars, drugs and meditation, spiritual leaders and the business of religion.
Recorded in Las Vegas, U.S.A. on April 16 of 1991 by Steve Zuckerman. |
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Swamiji answers questions about TM meditation and work as a form of tapas. "Do whatever you are doing now [TM], followed by the meditation [Swamiji] has taught you. If you do that, you will get in samadhi." "Tapas is meant for the soul. Whereas the job that you are doing is for your physical body. It is for your stomach. It’s to feed you." "You will get a lot of experience out of [persevering with difficult work], but it will not become tapas." "When you get into the state of samadhi, then the tapas starts." |
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When Shivabalayogi was traveling in the West, he often engaged in conversations where devotees asked questions on a wide variety of subjects. This conversation in Las Vegas on April 16, 1991, was recorded on video and is a good example of what it was like when Shri Swamiji communicated in words. He was humorous, loving, direct and surprisingly uncompromising. It is also typical in that Shri Swamiji often talked with Western devotees about the difference between God realized yogis who know from direct experience, and spiritual leaders who get their knowledge from books. |
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Swamiji answers questions about tapas (penance; meditation in the state of samadhi). "[Swamiji] was just a normal kid like any of us. But he went to play there, while he was eating the fruit, he had the enlightenment. Then he started doing the penance. Now he has become a yogi. So that is the meaning of enlightenment. Not everything is enlightenment." "When this samadhi stays for an extended period, something like twenty-four hours a day, then God will come down to awaken you. That will be Self realization. When God appears to you, in front of your eyes, that is the siddhi. Now that is the qualification. You have then finished your penance successfully, that’s what it means." "You’ll have to ask God whether he chose Swamiji. Because he doesn’t understand why he has been chosen. [laughter] He was a naughty boy. As a boy, he was very naughty. He doesn’t understand why he has been [chosen to be Self realized]." |
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Swamiji answers questions about the effect of drugs on meditation. "He shall not return to the drugs once he gets into meditation." "In England, these people had brought the medicine ... to Swamiji himself and asked him to bless it. He says that he asked them, for what do you use this? Then the person answered that the people who taught him Transcendental Meditation had given that to him. And he was told that if he takes that he will have good meditation. It happened in England, he says, and he had to pay a hundred dollars for that." "He says as long as they say it’s a medicine, it’s for the body, it’s for healing, then it is OK. But they had mentioned that it helps the meditation, it helps the samadhi. That’s where he disagrees." "So when he heard this, he says he scolded, he reprimanded Maharshi’s brother and his nephew a lot. He told them that the line of devotion will get spoiled because of what you are doing." |
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Swamiji is asked about Jesus, yogis, and explains astral bodies. "[Yogis] do come in their astral bodies and they help you. All the yogis do that." "[Christ] does appear to a lot of people here and there. How does he do that? It is his astral body that is moving ... For a yogi, there are lots of astral bodies, of different kinds of astral bodies." "Christ had done penance in India ... for twelve years ... to serve the people. But when he came out to serve the people, he was killed." "He says there are [yogis] in America but they won’t come out. ... They are among the natives of this land." |
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Swamiji is asked about Christianity's claim to be the only true path to God. "Not just Christianity. Every religion says that it is the only path to God. ... Yogis don’t say that. Christ himself had not said that." "The difference is that a yogi, he loves people of all religions, people of all lines. Whereas the spiritual leader only takes care of his devotees." "If the ego leaves the spiritual leader, how can he develop his religion? He should have the ego. Unless he accuses and criticizes somebody else, how will they come to him?" |
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Asked about avatars using Shirdi Sai Baba, Haidakhan Baba, and Yogananda as examples, Swamiji explains there are significant differences between yogi and avatar. "There is a lot of difference between an avatar and a yogi. Shirdi Sai Baba was a yogi. Sathya Sai Baba is an avatar." "Haidakhan Baba that you mentioned, that man was a great yogi. He had done a lot of tapas and he was doing tapas. On his name now another person has come up and he claims he is an avatar of Haidakhan Baba." "Paramahansa was a spiritual leader. Babaji was a yogi." "Later on, the people like you, will all join together and also write about Swamiji saying he is a maha avatar. That’s how it happened." "Swamiji is here, to support everybody. He is not here to criticize anybody. He says if he starts criticizing another yogi, or another spiritual leader, or another avatar, he himself will turn into a spiritual leader, rather than be a yogi. A yogi always supports everyone else." |
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Mukhtananda, Mahesh Yogi & Yogananda Swamiji is asked about Mukhtananda, Mahesh Yogi, and Yogananda. "it is not necessary for him to meet Mukhtananda. He is a spiritual leader whereas Swamiji is a yogi." "Nityananda was a yogi. Mukhtananda was a spiritual leader. And the people who are now working, who are in the management, they are the modern leaders. If you look at them you will also understand, very clearly." "[Mahesh Yogi] is a spiritual leader. He had come here to do business. His guru is a yogi, not him." "Those who get trained from a yogi become spiritual leaders." "[Lahiri Mahasaya], he is a yogi. Even his guru was a yogi. They had to do tapas. If you do tapas you yourself will become a yogi." |
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Swamiji is asked about Christian eschatology: the final events of history or the End Times, the Anti-Christ and the Second Coming. "if you meditate well, you’ll come to know when he is going to come down here, and whether he has already come here. ... Christ does really come down. Let us say Christ does really come down. Let us say he has come down to you. Will you allow him to come near you? Will you accept him?" "If somebody comes and claims he is Christ, he is Jesus Christ, will the pope resign his job and give that to Christ? ... If Jesus Christ himself comes down again, he will have to start his mission in life from the beginning. These people themselves will be his enemies." "God comes down here. He comes down in various forms. ... God himself has come down in the form of Christ, right? So, do know in what form Christ will be coming down?" "if it is true that the religion had started two hundred years after Christ died, then there’s no believing that the people who started the religion had seen Christ. They wouldn’t have seen Christ, right? So it is only out of their imagination that they drew pictures of Christ." |
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End Times 2 - Jesus & the Pope "Christ is in the form of a yogi. Whereas the pope now he’s in the form of a policeman, a security man. His dress and the way he looks, it’s a uniform." "The uniform or the dress that the pope wears now is not that of the devotees of Christ. It is of that of the representatives of the king at the time. " "The worship that you are doing now is more related to the king and not to Christ. You are not worshipping Christ, he says. You are following the orders of the king." |